Thursday, September 9, 2010

Harlem Zone, Poverty, & Skills

Paul Tough covers quite a bit of ground in chapter 2 of his book Whatever It Takes, touching on issues related to the evolving societal attitudes on poverty and the vital roles that parents play in influencing the cognitive skills of their children. Tough makes it clear that children who live in poverty are up against so many daunting odds.

At one point, Tough summarizes the work of noted scholar William Julius Wilson pointing out that the "increased mobility for middle-class blacks" as well as a major shift from low-skills jobs contributed to decay or downfall of poor neighborhoods (30-32).

What did you find most compelling about Tough's discussion of poverty? Why?

Or, what do you imagine the prevailing views of poverty might be at SIUE? Tough mentioned two central beliefs about poverty: some feel that government helps those who are poor too much; on the hand, some feel that government offers to little help for those in living in poverty. Where do you think most of us on a college campus would situate ourselves in that debate? Why?

23 comments:

Mitchell Martineau said...

I found this chapter extremely interesting, to the point where i found it hard to put down! Much of society is under misconceptions about poverty. I admit even myself, simply assume that because the poor have such little money, that their children do poorer in school because of the lack of resources available to them. Instead, Tough provides examples, studies done that prove otherwise. In the chapter, tough includes a study done by researchers. They found that interaction at home is pivotal when it comes to the child's development. I, myself, never thought that this would be the reason, that soccer moms actually contribute so much to their child's future. I found this to be the most compelling part of the whole chapter.

Sneeley said...

What I found most compelling about Tough's discussion of poverty were the complete different view points of Wilson and Muarray. The ways they proposed a solution to poverty were extreme. For instance taking away all federal funding, or giving "poor" people a lot more funding. Both solutions pose as many problems as they claim to solve in my opinion.

Tina Messenger said...

The two views mentioned in this chapter are so controversial and I would say that on campus the views would probably be based on what type of family the student was brought up in. I truly believe that for one to truly understand poverty you had to have lived through it. So individuals that may have come from a middle class family might take more of a stance that there is too much government assistance.

I don't believe that there is too much assistance I believe that we have a system that can be abused and does not give individuals any sort of advantage to get ahead. There are welfare programs designed to teach people job skills but mostly for lower level positions.

The type of assistance that our government MUST offer needs to be one that puts everyone on equal playing fields i.e., give more individuals opportunity to buy homes, build equity, secure a higher education and other types of education for parenting, coping skills, self esteem and any other accessory components that an individual needs to get ahead of the game.

Our current system barely allows families to stay afloat and turn their situation around. There are a lot of hard working individuals that live in poverty and hold down 2 jobs, try to raise and support a family so when and where are they going to find time to work on their own self esteem let alone their childrens. People in poverty are just trying to survive.

Sydney N. said...

I don't think that in this area people have a conception of the type of poverty that is talked about in this book. What we think of as "the ghetto" in many of our small towns is probably much better off than these massive impoverished areas like in New York or Chicago or other big city. Therefore, it makes this book a little harder to understand and to sypathize with because when I think of poverty I don't think it is that horrible due to my experiences. I am torn on the subject of poverty. On one hand I would agree that there are not a large amount of resources such as sex education in place to help prevent the cycle of single motherhood leads to poverty leads to your kids having kids at young ages which also leads to poverty. On the other hand I don't think it is impossible to get a job, and if people would put in some effort they could improve their lives.

Adriana Romo said...

I personally do not think that people here at SIUE really have a grasp of what poverty is. Here in Edwardsville and the surrounding towns do have some people who do not have much money but are no where near as poor as in other large cities.

Considering that the economy is not at its best, it is probably even harder for these poor people that Tough talks about to find jobs. Unfortunately, there are some individuals that do depend much on the government and take advantage of its help. These people are at times not even searching for jobs and when they do find one, they do not work hard and take advantage of the opportunity.

There could be more programs offered by the government to help these poor. Instead of just giving them money etc, the government should set jobs for these people so they can earn a living with dignity which they will be very proud of. Also, setting up schools at lower costs etc could help these poor people get a decent education which can help them find employment quicker. In return, these people will be very thankful and will hopefully contribute to their communities and society in a positive manner.

Tricia Johnson said...

I enjoyed reading this chapter because it allows those who have no real understanding of poverty to be educated on it. Being a student teacher the most important thing that I've been taught by my professors and cooperating teachers in the classroom is this: it's all starts in the home. It doesn't matter if the child is dirt poor or disgustingly wealthy, if the parents or primary providers are doing what they need to do then the child will flourish under any circumstances.

I have a relative that grew up in poverty, his dad was single and very sickly. He didn't have material things or money, he wasn't dressed the best, and he was shunned by all 7 of his dad's siblings because of the circumstances he lived in. But his dad loved him and was ALWAYS there for him (God rest his soul), pushed him to do his best in school, and raised him to be a responsible man. He got in trouble if his dad found out he tried to skip or if his grades weren't up to par. He didn't have material things but he had love and support from his dad and that was all he needed. He graduated from high school,went to the Air Force, and is about to graduate with his Bachelor's degree. He's very intelligent and articulate, and look where he came from.
I believe that any child can be successful as long as they have guidance and support that they need. It all starts at home. Parents also need to realize that their children see and hear everything that they do, and these behaviors will manifest in the classroom.

Tricia Johnson said...

I enjoyed reading this chapter because it allows those who have no real understanding of poverty to be educated on it. Being a student teacher the most important thing that I've been taught by my professors and cooperating teachers in the classroom is this: it's all starts in the home. It doesn't matter if the child is dirt poor or disgustingly wealthy, if the parents or primary providers are doing what they need to do then the child will flourish under any circumstances.

I have a relative that grew up in poverty, his dad was single and very sickly. He didn't have material things or money, he wasn't dressed the best, and he was shunned by all 7 of his dad's siblings because of the circumstances he lived in. But his dad loved him and was ALWAYS there for him (God rest his soul), pushed him to do his best in school, and raised him to be a responsible man. He got in trouble if his dad found out he tried to skip or if his grades weren't up to par. He didn't have material things but he had love and support from his dad and that was all he needed. He graduated from high school,went to the Air Force, and is about to graduate with his Bachelor's degree. He's very intelligent and articulate, and look where he came from.
I believe that any child can be successful as long as they have guidance and support that they need. It all starts at home. Parents also need to realize that their children see and hear everything that they do, and these behaviors will manifest in the classroom.

Christen Maul said...

I think our SIUE campus would probably land on the side of the government not doing enough. In my personal opinion, it is not necessarily an issue of money they are not giving enough of. Don't get me wrong, I have my frustrations with funding for college students. It seems the system has it backwards at times.

But in the subject of poverty, just handing out money isn't helping anyone in the long run. This makes me think of the phrase, "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime." We give our poor enough to scrape by, but they can't move forward in life based on that. They can't sustain the things needed to better themselves and their lives. We need to educate and give those in need the tools to succeed. Our government needs to give more than money to the impoverished.

Amanda Monla said...

This chapter was a very interesting read. I found the part about the education of poor children very intriguing. Like was said below, it is a common assumption that poor students do badly in school because of the resources that they have available to them. I also think that people think they do poorly because the parents are busy working and trying to support their family, so they don't have as much free time to help their children study for school. I just thought it was neat to read about because Tough proved wrong by talking about the studies that were done.

Kamrey Mcnutt said...

What I found most compelling about Tough's discussion of poverty is the point that poverty persists because the government helps too much. I agree with this point and honestly can see no better answer to the reason why many people living in poverty never find their way out. I don't oppose the government helping individuals get on their feet, but I'm against the fact that the government does not recognize when its aid is being abused. The government does not push people to take the aid as a means to advance to a point where they no longer need the aid. As long as people know that they can get hundreds of dollars worth of food stamps and Medicaid by being financially unstable they are unlikely to push themselves to become financially stable. Why work hard for money when you can sit on your butt and receive handouts from the government. There just isn't any incentive to do better and as a result I can't imagine poverty ever being a minor issue.

Robyn Rhone said...

Like many other people said this chapter was very interesting. I want to comment on Charles Murray because he felt as if the government was helping too much. I personally dont agree with Murray because everyone has a different circumstance that contributes to why that person or family is poor. An example of this could be a single mother who has young children in school, but nobody to be at home when they get out. Because the children are young, and not capable of watching themselves the single mother would then have to find a job that would only permit her to work certain hours. If she cant find a job that would allow her to do so she would need government assistance. Its not like she doesnt want to work, she is unable to. I dont think "Great Society programs" hurt poor people but help them. Without these programs they wouldnt be able to eat or have a place to stay. In my opinion it seems like Murray is saying let the poor stay poor.

DOug Timm said...

I found this cahpter to be a real "gateway" into the lives of the poor african american families. i too found it hard to put the book down. i found it very interesting that the research that they did does suggest on how childern are raised
i found this chapter to be a real eye opener

Anonymous said...

what do you imagine the prevailing views of poverty might be at SIUE?

This all depends where individuals come from. On one hand, a student on this campus might have come from a neighborhood that has not seen government relief. The neighborhood where the textbooks are old and the buildings are run down. Where Boys & Girls clubs are shut down, in places that really need it.
On the other end, a student could have come from seen as working class. They're use to people working hard to get out of conditions and therefore, become naive and believe that government relief will only be seen in terms of "welfare". They may have this preconception, that you are where you are because you haven't worked hard to get yourself out of there.

In those eyes, the government is seen as crippling people.
Personally, I believe the government does a lot, but sometimes it's not for the right organization. I came from a YMCA that received a two thousand grant for Art supplies, and at the same time left a YMCA because there was no money to pay it's employees. The government is clearing funding youth's, but is more valuable to have new art supplies, or money to keep a center running?
-Cassaundra Sampson

Laura McCulley said...

This was an interesting chapter because knowing what true poverty is can't be taught it is something that has to be lived and many students here at SIUE do not know what exactly living in poverty is like. There are some students here that have had to live with families on aid and know what it feels like for their parents to barely be able to provide for them and then there are other students which are the majority who have never wanted for anything and were brought up in affluent neighborhoods and look down on those who need assistance. It all depends on where and the circumstances students were brought up under to understand. There will always be those people who take advantage of the system and there will always be those people who don't understand feel as if everyone on aid is living off of the government and not trying to help themselves. I do not believe that the government is helping too much. There are many other programs and funding that could be given to educate people and help them in the time of need so I would have to disagree with what was stated in the chapter.

Kevin Oliva said...

I found most compelling was Murray's and Wilson's propositions of helping people in poverty. Does the government need to help more or does the government need back off and let people survive on their own? Both sides were both taking extreme actions. However, in my opinion, the government should help out people in poverty and provide programs, such as job training.

Phillip P. Leatherman said...

Great Pick, “Whatever it Takes”! This is turning out to be a fascinating read, judging from the first few chapters.

I recognized Geoffrey Canada’s image on the cover right off. I’ve followed his progress of late through several of the news/talk shows.

The question of “unequal childhoods” is one for the ages and has been addressed in literature, theater and film for as long as those mediums have been around. “The Prince and the Pauper”, a classic novel and “Trading Places”, a film from the eighties are two such works that placed the topic center stage.

There are many issues affecting poor people that they have no control over. In fact, in this country unlike in some other industrialize countries, money means power. The converse is also true, if one does not have money, one does not have power. In the book “Outliers”, by Malcolm Gladwell, the author talked about some societies in which money affected your comfort zone not your standing in society. Social status was based on individual merit and competence. Fifty years ago there was a very powerful middle class in this country. From then to now there has been a noticeable power shift to the super wealthy. This election cycle has seen many candidates throwing tens and in several cases hundreds of millions of dollars of personal wealth in to campaigns to win an office that only pays several hundred thousand.

The rich and powerful in this country are the minority. In a Democracy, which we are on a state level (a Republic on the federal level), majority rules. So, how in a society in which majority rules, does the minority gain and retain power? My theory is that you dumb down the masses, convolute the rules, inflate the price of joining the various governing bodies and give the middle class the choice of the “stick or the carrot”. Care for the poor, in which there is no money in it or cater to rich in the hopes of joining their ranks.

In this book the author talks about the conflict within some elements of society. Their heart strings are being tugged by the site of children without some of the bare necessities, and reports of shocking abuses of government aid. One of my fellow students wrote earlier in this blog about being from a small town and the different experiences or perceptions about poverty. In fact the majority of Americans live in rural communities. The majority of their views about people different from themselves do not come from first hand experiences. They are influenced by the media, movies, music, the church, the internet, books, professors, family and friends. Many of the sources can be and I contend are controlled by powerful entities.

I am not a conspiracy theorist per-say, however, the poor have much more than just being poor standing in their way of raising themselves up out of poverty.

Unknown said...

I found that Tough’s thoughts on poverty were very accurate. Being from a poverty stricken neighborhood myself I see that the amounts of jobs available are not one’s that require higher education or even a high school diploma.
Here at S.I.U.E poverty can be described in many different ways. Whether it be being able to go through school without any student loans or the type of clothes you wear on campus. Different people see poverty in their own way. When it comes to the government helping those who are of lower socioeconomic standing here at S.I.U.E, some people do not think that it is fair that people are offered grants or scholarships just because someone comes from a family with low income. Others do not seem to have a problem with helping those who are less fortunate.

Tiffany Johnson said...

I found this chapter to be an eye opener. It is evident that our societys view on poverty is far fetched from the reality of it. Many of us grow up in homes with either one or two parents that have the ability to provide, participate in extra cirricular activities, etc. Some of us do not know what its like to miss a meal. We look at the next kid and think they are living in poverty simply because they didn't get the new Jordan's that came out this month. I said that to say much of our society has misconceptions about poverty.

D. A. Pongo said...

The authors were careful to ensure that all data was statistically sound and I really liked that. Economists have long proven and argued that education is the impetus for the long term growth of an economy, so I was glad that education was the focal point for most of the discussion.

Judging from the class discussions in my econ courses, SIUe students (in the School of Business at least) are apathetic towards the less fortunate and really believe that the govt. helps the poor too much. I believe that a we're only "as strong as our weakest link" so it's important to ensure that every one in a country is productive.

On this debate, I think most college students would agree that education is the start for improving poor neighborhoods. Welfare is still needed to tend to BASIC needs but education should be America's top priority. On pg. 38, Newman reports lower poverty during boom periods illustrating a trickle down effect during economic cycles. I believe that investing in all of America's human capital will best help this country.

Other countries like China and India have had that focus and their economies are now growing. Their past investments in education are now producing results.
Politicians should take education into account for the long term health of the country when creating social policies and Tough is on point with his discussion and implied conclusions.

Charnelle M said...

If there was a discussion about poverty at SIUE there would be a even distribution of people on both sides of Tough's argument. It has been my experience that in a debate on this issue in some classes that people will decide which side to agree with based on personal experience. Personally I feel that the government does try to offer some assistance to those who need it but then there is the problem of those who abuse the assistance given while there are so many others that could truly use the help. I have heard many people from lower income families complain about not receiving the financial assistance needed to continue their education while people from higher income families boast about how everything has been taken care of. Then there are times when the situations are switched, so in a discussion of SIUE students opinions on poverty there would be a split between the two ideas.

Steven Robinson-Holman said...

I believe the prevailing view of poverty at SIUE is that poverty is a good thing. Some students coming from homes with poverty recieve plenty of financial aid even enough to recieve refund checks that are worth two thousand dollars. I also hear a lot of students on campus brag about their refund checks coming in the mail. Sometimes I feel like it would better for me at college if I came from a poverty stricken home. I believe that most people on campus also would believe that the government hands out to much money.

mercedes pineda said...

In the future, I plan to be teaching in the inner cities, the ones that are described in this book. Harlem is a perfect example of a city I want to teach at. I chose inner city because of the same reason of Gregory. I know there are children struggling to live.
This chapter just opened my eye alot more and broke my heart a lot more. Poverty is such an important factor in the a inner city child's life. However, it is quite a challenge to either eliminate poverty or work with poverty.
Now, I believe poverty can have a big influence on how parents parent their children. But, I think that even though parents may not have any money, there is not any reason at all to discourage and talk down to their children.
Although, I believe that parents in the inner city are in really stressful situations. I can believe of how hard and challenging it is to be under those conditions and raise children. I really still do not have any idea of what parents and kids go through. I have read chapter 1 and chapter 2 but I know Tough has not even touched other problems of the inner city life. So, after reading those chapters, I hope to really read more of how real people are dealing with real situations.

Glennda Lyles said...

This chapter brings up some interesting points regarding poverty. I can see how students could take either view purposed in this chapter. I think it is important for those who are truly in need of extra assistance to receive it. It goes back to the old saying of "Help those who are less fortunate." Everyone in society is not in an equal position so I believe that some people need extra assistance. However, it is important not abuse this assistance or become too dependent on it. This leads to the second view that some may have that the government provides too much assistance. Some would agree that if the government continues to give out financial help that members from low-income environments will never learn to do for themselves and that government assistance would be more of a hindrance than an aide. I found this view of Murray's to be the most compelling because it is a view that I never considered.