Wednesday, November 7, 2018

Haley Reading Group: Kathryn Joyce’s “Out Here, No One Can Hear You Scream”

[The Best American Science and Nature Writing (2017)]

Kathryn Joyce’s article “Out Here, No One Can Hear You Scream” details the experiences of sexual harassment and assault women experienced while working either at the Grand Canyon or other places of nature.

Joyce captured one woman’s description of putting up with abuse in the workplace because “she didn’t want to be one of those women” and jeopardize her image or career. This statement represents the struggle women face when attempting to demand their rights as human beings without threatening the loss of their jobs or destroying their reputations.

After reading this article, which one of the changes made to discouraging sexual harassment at the work place that you thought was most important? Why did that change matter to you?

32 comments:

Kobi Phillips said...

After reading Joyce's 'Out Here, No One Can Hear You Scream' one specific quote that especially stood out to me was on page 254 where she states that "the views are stupefying, the waters turquoise, and the disconnection almost total - a moonscape beyond cell phone reception. For many people it's a spiritual experience.". Reading her words here put me in a place of nature that had once given me some type of spiritual experience myself. The imagery that her words paint put me in this place that she's describing which is extremely important in assuring the attention of her readers is kept.
Kobi Phillips

Kobi Phillips said...

After reading Joyce's 'Out Here, No One Can Hear You Scream' one specific quote that especially stood out to me was on page 254 where she states that "the views are stupefying, the waters turquoise, and the disconnection almost total - a moonscape beyond cell phone reception. For many people it's a spiritual experience.". Reading her words here put me in a place of nature that had once given me some type of spiritual experience myself. The imagery that her words paint put me in this place that she's describing which is extremely important in assuring the attention of her readers is kept.
Kobi Phillips

J'kolbe Kelly said...

The change I found had the most impact was the the ruling from the case Bernardi v. Madigan. The court settled with a "'Consent Decree' that required the Forest Service's California region to employ as many woman as the civilian workforce- at least 43% in each pay grade(256
)." I think this is an important change because with more females in the field it will be easier to fight the misogynistic behavior in that field.

Raillane Kamdem said...

The change discouraging sexual assault that really spoke to me was the “Consent Decree” that requiredthe Forest Services California région to employ as many women as the civilian workforce (256). I feel like this change was important because the more women there are in the workforce the more it normalizes them being there and reduces to amount of sexual assault.

Unknown said...

The change that I liked liked was on the boat trips that they would have a supervisor present, no alcohol, and they had to wear standard uniforms. This will help when it comes to not having as many problems with sexual harassment

Jeremiah Terrell said...


After reading the article, I think the letter wrote by Hall and Donnelly requesting a formal investigation was most important. I believe this mattered because the investigation was the time that the victims were taken serious and it affected change throughout the Park and Forest Service.

Kyla Tinsley said...

The change that made the most impact on discouraging sexual assault to me was when the OIG became involved and the park was forced to make some changes. One of these changes included an outside supervisor needed on boat trips (268). This could make traveling safer for women as an outside supervisor won't tolerate any harassment or assault if they witness it.

Unknown said...

This was Tara Thompson

Kalonji Rumph said...

After reading Kathyrn Joyce's 'Out Here, No One Can Hear You Scream' the most important change in National Park policies to combat sexual harassment and sexual assault against women in that environment is the "Consent decree" that stemmed from 1981 case, Bernadi vs. Madigan (256). This required park agencies to incorporate women into their staff and ensured that women would make up at least 43 percent of the workforce. This policy is huge because it's been proven time and time again that there is strength in numbers. Naturally, women will be safer in that environment if there are more of them.

Jasmin Smoot said...

On page 264, the author mentioned in 2011 that the USDA began taking the claims of the Forest Service. Although the women who have been employed there well before this decision had been made, suffered more than enough emotionally and physically, it was apparent that someone wanted to take action. It was even stated by the chief of the Forest Service that EEO complaints had not been handled well, which is supporting evidence that something needed to be done, especially on women's behalf. What stood out about this was that there is always going to be times when you have to go further than those directly above you to make change happen.

Anonymous said...

I have a problem with requiring a certain percentage being women. This just means that a less qualified woman could get hired over a more qualified man just because they need to make quotas. So that's a messed up, potentially hypocritical system. But I supposed supervision is called for at this point. Honestly I can't expect many messed up systems to go harder on themselves, so just establishing unquestionable record of trips seem to make since. At my job we have 24 hour surveillance of the dog room. It's annoying, but if something happens, it gets reviewed. You dont do stupid stuff if you're being watched, in this case maybe listened to.

Ash Mason

Tyla Lucas said...

One of the most important changes to me was that there would be "... disciplinary action against managers who mishandled complaints" (269). This would force managers to do the right thing for their own sake. It is a shame that this has to be done, but I believe it is an important step.

Samontriona Perkins said...

What caught my attention was the quote "She ran 45-sections of hose into the forest and cleared live trees to create fuel breaks. In her first months on the Eldorado, she said an assistant captain asked her whether she'd been a "bitch" or a "slut" in the navy and whether her skin was really that color or just dirty."(263) This quote stood out to me for two reasons. One was because her (Elise Lopez-Crowder) being a firefighter, she took part in helping clear a forest fire. Instead of getting recognition all the man could think of was if she had been "slut." The second thing is that it was not just any man, but an assistant captain that was over her. He is someone that should be wanting her to do better and succeed, but instead, he tried to make a move on her as well on a later date and was only put on administrative leave. While the investigation was ongoing he was assigned to the same work sites as her. She later left the division. I feel like he should have been put somewhere else rather than back at the same sites where she was located. The change was not as abrupt as it should have been, there were too many steps she had to take to get away from him like going to the USDA secretary, but I am glad something was done about the situation.

Alliyah M. said...

After reading the article, the changes that I thought was the most important was when the National Park made changes to their policies after the OIG started their investigation based on claims made at the park. On page 268, the article details how the park introduced various ways to improve their sexual harassment policies such as possible disciplinary action against managers who ignore sexual harassment complaints, having an outside supervisors required on all expeditions and all employees having a required uniform.

Out of all of the changes that park made to their policies, I think the fact that managers can have disciplinary actions taken against them if they ignore complaints is very important because it assures that employees who report incidents of sexual harassment are taken seriously and prevents them from being retaliated against by other employees or even fired from their jobs for making such complaints.

Kenisha Townsend said...

I believe the most important change to discouraging sexual harassment in the workplace was the employment of 43 percent women in every pay grade (pg.256). I feel as though this will enable at least two women and two men to be sent on trips together rather than just one female. When you're the only female on a trip in the middle of nowhere, I can imagine it's quite scary to be sexually harassed with no one around to help you. If two women are on the trip, they will likely stick together if approached with such a matter.

Anonymous said...

A point that really stood out to me was on page 256 where it said, "at least 43 percent" of the employees in each pay grade needed to be women. I understand trying to do things to make everything more equal, but if certain percentages are required then someone who is more qualified to do a job runs the risk of losing it to someone less qualified just so the company can say they are being fair. In a world where everyone was equally qualified, this would be a great solution.

-Marcus Underwood

Sierra Taylor said...

After reading the article, I thought a very important change that occurred was the Consent Decree. Representation is important and having more women in the staff can promote solidarity between them. Women can come together and have each other's backs when sexual harassment happens.

Brandon Nichols said...

"For the next year all EEO complaints were handled by the secretary's office in Washington."(264) Too many stories of companies sweeping employee complaints under the rug.When companies ignore complaints, it discourages women from speaking up. Then somehow, people still blame the women for not telling, when they had a hard time telling from the start.

Brandon Nichols

Jordan R. said...

Some of the most important changes made to the workplace were listed as follows, "After Bill Wright transferred out of the district, his role was filled by a woman... There would be no alcohol permitted and an outside supervisor would be required on all expeditions" (268). Seeing that many of the situations of harassment happened when people of some authority abused there power, it does seem right to allow a woman to acquire that role of authority. Allowing future complaints to be brought to the attention of a female in Bill Wright's place will most likely allow those complaints to be taken more seriously.

Jordan R. said...

Some of the most important changes made to the workplace were listed as follows, "After Bill Wright transferred out of the district, his role was filled by a woman... There would be no alcohol permitted and an outside supervisor would be required on all expeditions" (268). Seeing that many of the situations of harassment happened when people of some authority abused there power, it does seem right to allow a woman to acquire that role of authority. Allowing future complaints to be brought to the attention of a female in Bill Wright's place will most likely allow those complaints to be taken more seriously.

Anonymous said...

p.268 Out Here No One Can Hear you Scream
The most important change to me was to revise the trip procedures. Having a supervisor (outside) at all trips is good, so that an extra set of eyes can be present to monitor and record such events. Its unfortunate that the park didn't do more to curb sexual harassment. They need strict consequences for allegations and even more severe for proven claims.
Shelby W.

Erica King said...

The change that I found most interesting was the Consent Decree which made it a requirement that woman was allowed to work along with men for the park agency. Although this was just one place of work, I believe it could have been a stepping stone for other job agencies to follow.

Anonymous said...

The article was very interesting but also very eye opening in certain aspects. It furthered my knowledge of women in the workforce but, I am conflicted on how I feel about the inclusion of women in this way. On page 256 the book read that, “at least 43 percent” of the workers in each level of pay need to be women. From one standpoint this can be seen as a step towards equality in the workforce as these women are guaranteed the same opportunities as men. Yet I find trouble with this because of this required percentage, some women may not be fully qualified to do this job. Yet, because of this requirement, these women will get hired anyways. I think this is a good step to better rights and pay for women in the workforce, yet I am not quite sure if it will be fully effective. Gabrielle W.

Anonymous said...

Sexual assault is an important topic that affects people not only in the work place, but in life in general. After reading the article the changes that stood out to me as being important, were the changes that included the detailed plan to correct their policies and take corrective actions against those who didn’t comply. This was an important change because it provided a way to remove the untouchable attitudes that were present in earlier investigations. This would also ensure that everyone who filed a complaint would be taken seriously and their cases would to be handled correctly with the new policies in placed. Nia P.

Maya Searcy said...

The part that stuck out to me the most was the "Consent decree" that was a result of the 1981 case, Bernadi vs. Madigan (256). This Consent decree said that 43% of the workforce had to be women. I think this is important because other women in this workforce will have allies and people they can go to that they know will listen and believe them. Also it means that some serious change is being done in response to the sexual assault.

Sydney Oats said...

"...in the workplace was the employment of 43 percent women in every pay grade" (pg.256). The change to increase the amount of women working there to help decrease the amount of sexual assault is sad, but necessary. Sexual assault is a big problem around a lot of things that would seem to be safe and enjoyable.

Jazsmine Towner said...

"Consent decree required the Forest Service's California region to employ as many women as the civilian workplace at least 43% in every pay grade" (256). Although, much more needs to be done to fight against sexual assault, representation matters. I think that having more women employed in this position will bring comfort to women who are afraid or who have been sexually harassed in the workplace. Also, having more women may make it less enticing for men to use sexual inappropriate behaviors.
-Jazsmine Towner

Kelsey McNeil said...

This article that we had to read was very intriguing to me. I thought it was so eye-opening to read about sexual assault and what goes on in different workplaces. I would've never thought that things would get that bad in that kind of work because it was just something that I didn't really think about. The change that I think would be the most beneficial would having supervisors on the trips as well as no alcohol (268). That way, everyone would be able to look out for each other and keep one another safe.

-Kelsey McNeil

Jasmyn Kloster said...

The quote that stood out to me the most was the quote on page 263 that started,"She ran 45-sections of hose into the forest and cleared live trees to create fuel breaks. In her first months on the Eldorado, she said an assistant captain asked her whether she'd been a "bitch" or a "slut" in the navy and whether her skin was really that color or just dirty." This quote stood out to me because it really bothered me that this woman who was risking her life to save others in multiple was being called such horrible names by an assistant captain. Instead of getting praised and honored like a man would, she is being put down and shamed for her gender. The assistant captain was put on administrative leave at a later date but still worked in the same areas as her. To me, that is an unfair punishment. He should have been put elsewhere to deter any other comments or actions.

Donovan Washington said...

This article is very interesting to read especially because it talks about the topic of sexual harassment in the workplace which many woman know all to well about. After reading the article the one change that stood out to me the most was the change to increase the amount of woman hired in every pay grade mentioned on page 256. This stood out the most because of how helpful this can be to woman and how positive this change can impact the workplace.

JaLeah M . said...

When the text read, "... disciplinary action against managers who mishandled complaints” (269) I think this principle was important because it forces superiors to handle situations as such correctly and appropriately. I think articles such as this one are very important in present day being that they bring awareness and address real issues that need to continue to be addressed.

Jayla Pierce said...

What was most interesting to me was the fact that it took so much work in order for an actual complaint to got through. Even after the complaint went through, it did not guarantee that action was going to be taken. Chances are that the case would be dismissed. It goes to show how much workplaces at times did not care for the way women were treated. Women were seen as weaker and less qualified for the same postions as males. I appreciate how the problems that women face and can face in workplaces were recongnized in this article. While there was progress being made, i feel like there’s still more progress taht can still be made.